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Discussion space - W2: Evaluating the impact of data and associated uncertainty on hydrological model predictions

Page: W2.W2PositionPaper - Last Modified : Mon, 05 May 08

W2.W2PositionPaper History

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May 05, 2008, at 08:32 AM by 130.56.65.25 -
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'''Position paper under discussion''': [[Attach:W2positionPaper.pdf| Workshop2Paper.pdf]]
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'''Position paper under discussion''': [[Attach:W2PositionPaper.pdf| Workshop2Paper.pdf]]
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'''Abstract by Swayne et al''': [[Attach:swayneetal.pdf | Abstract by swayne et al]]
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'''To submit an abstract''': [[Attach:YourNameofFirstAuthor_et_al.pdf| Click here]]
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'''To submit an abstract''': [[Attach:Abstract.pdf| Click here]]
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'''To submit an abstract''': [[Attach:abstract.pdf| Click here]]
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'''To submit an abstract''': [[Attach:YourNameofFirstAuthor_et_al.pdf| Click here]]
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'''To submit an abstract''': [[Attach:abstractExample.pdf| Click here]]
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'''To submit an abstract''': [[Attach:abstract.pdf| Click here]]
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'''Abstract by Chiew et al''': [[Attach:Chiew_et_al.pdf| Abstract by Chiew et al]]

'''Abstract by Kavetski et al''': [[Attach:Kavetski_et_al.pdf| Abstract by Kavetski et al]]

'''Abstract by Lerat-cemagref''': [[Attach:Lerat-cemagref.pdf| Abstract by Lerat, Cemagref]]

'''Abstract by Mathevet-EDF''': [[Attach:Mathevet-EDF.pdf| Abstract by Mathevet-EDF]]

'''Abstract by Vaze et al''': [[Attach:Vaze_et_al.pdf| Abstract by Vaze et al]]
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'''Abstract by Chiew et al''': [[Attach:Chiew_et_al.pdf | Abstract by Chiew et al]]

'''Abstract by Kavetski et al''': [[Attach:Kavetski_et_al.pdf | Abstract by Kavetski et al]]

'''Abstract by Lerat-cemagref''': [[Attach:Lerat-cemagref.pdf | Abstract by Lerat, Cemagref]]

'''Abstract by Mathevet-EDF''': [[Attach:Mathevet-EDF.pdf | Abstract by Mathevet-EDF]]

'''Abstract by Vaze et al''': [[Attach:Vaze_et_al.pdf | Abstract by Vaze et al]]

'''Abstract by Kim et al''': [[Attach:Kim_et_al.pdf | Abstract by Kim
et al]]
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'''name the file attached like this''': YourNameofFirstAuthor_et_al.pdf

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1 - '''Upload the file''' clicking below were says "click here", but be careful: when uploading '''name the file attached like this''': YourNameofFirstAuthor_et_al.pdf

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Steps:
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Steps for submitting a new abstract:
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[='''Abstract by YourNameofFirstAuthor_et_al''': [[Attach:YourNameofFirstAuthor_et_al.pdf | Abstract by YourNameofFirstAuthor et al]]=]


'''To submit an abstract''': [[Attach:abstractExample.pdf| Click here]] \\
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[='''Abstract by YourNameofFirstAuthor et al''': [[Attach:YourNameofFirstAuthor_et_al.pdf | Abstract by YourNameofFirstAuthor et al]]=]

'''To submit an abstract''': [[Attach:abstractExample.pdf| Click here]]
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'''To submit an abstract''': [[Attach:abstractExample.pdf| Click here]] \\
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'''To submit an abstract''': [[Attach:abstractExample.pdf| Click here]] \\
Steps:

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2 - When uploading name the file like this: YourNameofFirstAuthor_et_al.pdf

3 - After uploading, edit this WIKI, add one empty line and add the following line at the bottom of the next section "Abstracts already uploaded":
'''Abstract by YourNameofFirstAuthor_et_al''': [[Attach:YourNameofFirstAuthor_et_al.pdf | Abstract by YourNameofFirstAuthor et al]]
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[++'''Abstracts'''++]

'''To submit an abstract''': [[Attach:abstracExample.pdf| Click here]]
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'''To submit an abstract''': [[Attach:abstractExample.pdf| Click here]]

[++'''Abstracts already uploaded'''++]

'''Abstract by Chiew et al''': [[Attach:Chiew_et_al.pdf| Abstract by Chiew et al]]
'''Abstract by Kavetski et al''': [[Attach:Kavetski_et_al.pdf| Abstract by Kavetski et al]]
'''Abstract by Lerat-cemagref''': [[Attach:Lerat-cemagref.pdf| Abstract by Lerat, Cemagref]]
'''Abstract by Mathevet-EDF''': [[Attach:Mathevet-EDF.pdf| Abstract by Mathevet-EDF]]
'''Abstract by Vaze et al''': [[Attach:Vaze_et_al.pdf| Abstract by Vaze et al]]
'''Abstract by et al''': [[Attach:abstracExample.pdf| Abstract by et al
]]
February 14, 2008, at 05:10 AM by 59.93.243.127 -
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11:52 by '''[[~w2thx1138]]'''
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01:18 by '''[[~Barry Croke]]'''
The final version of the position paper is due end of April.
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00:43 by '''[[~John Norton]]'''

Sec. 2.1, uncertainty depending on time step: The systematic error due to accumulating rainfall over a time step and perhaps also to averaging flow depends on whether the aim is to identify the instantaneous unit hydrograph or to predict flow from accumulated rainfall over a time step. easy to analyze how this error varies with time step if a suitable linear-model form, e.g. 2-exponential, is assumed for the IUH, but much harder for a non-linear loss module.

Secs. 4 and 5.1: can any use be made of established information measures such as entropy, mutual information and Kullback-Leibler divergence, not yet adopted in hydrological modelling? They allow measurement of increase in information due to introducing new data, in principle, but have limitations: they are all based on probability distributions of discrete random variables or pdfs of continuous ones and take account of time structure (e.g. power spectra or correlation functions), and they seem to have been applied mainly to scalar variables. [A short review of these measures is available from John Norton]
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01:18 by '''[[~Barry Croke]]'''
The final version of the position paper is due end of April.
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23:52 by '''[[~David Post]]'''
Barry - just checking to see that this Wiki works. I note that the discussion paper is still a bit of a draft. Should we work towards completing it soon or closer to the workshop?
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>>message<<
00:43 by '''[[~John Norton]]'''

Sec. 2.1, uncertainty depending on time step: The systematic error due to accumulating rainfall over a time step and perhaps also to averaging flow depends on whether the aim is to identify the instantaneous unit hydrograph or to predict flow from accumulated rainfall over a time step. easy to analyze how this error varies with time step if a suitable linear-model form, e.g. 2-exponential, is assumed for the IUH, but much harder for a non-linear loss module.

Secs. 4 and 5.1: can any use be made of established information measures such as entropy, mutual information and Kullback-Leibler divergence, not yet adopted in hydrological modelling? They allow measurement of increase in information due to introducing new data, in principle, but have limitations: they are all based on probability distributions of discrete random variables or pdfs of continuous ones and take account of time structure (e.g. power spectra or correlation functions), and they seem to have been applied mainly to scalar variables. [A short review of these measures is available from John Norton]

>><<

!!!!17 January 2008

>>message<<
23:52 by '''[[~David Post]]'''
Barry - just checking to see that this Wiki works. I note that the discussion paper is still a bit of a draft. Should we work towards completing it soon or closer to the workshop?
>><<
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February 05, 2008, at 01:03 PM by 58.161.210.111 -
February 05, 2008, at 01:03 PM by 58.161.210.111 -
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'''Example of abstract''': [[Attach:abstracExample.pdf| AbstractExample.pdf]]
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'''To submit an abstract''': [[Attach:abstracExample.pdf| Click here]]
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Sec. 2.1, uncertainty depending on time step: The systematic error due to accumulating rainfall over a time step and perhaps also to averaging flow depends on whether the aim is to identify the instantaneous unit hydrograph or to predict flow from accumulated rainfall over a time step. easy to analyze how this error varies with time step if a suitable linear-model form, e.g. 2-exponential, is assumed for the IUH, but much harder for a non-linear loss module.

Secs. 4 and 5.1: can any use be made of established information measures such as entropy, mutual information and Kullback-Leibler divergence, not yet adopted in hydrological modelling? They allow measurement of increase in information due to introducing new data, in principle, but have limitations: they are all based on probability distributions of discrete random variables or pdfs of continuous ones and take account of time structure (e.g. power spectra or correlation functions), and they seem to have been applied mainly to scalar variables. [A short review of these measures is available from John Norton]
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00:42 by '''[[~john.norton@anu.edu.au]]'''
Sec. 2.1, uncertainty depending on time step: The systematic error due to accumulating rainfall over a time step and perhaps also to averaging flow depends on whether the aim is to identify the instantaneous unit hydrograph or to predict flow from accumulated rainfall over a time step. easy to analyze how this error varies with time step if a suitable linear-model form, e.g. 2-exponential, is assumed for the IUH, but much harder for a non-linear loss module.

Secs. 4 and 5.1: can any use be made of established information measures such as entropy, mutual information and Kullback-Leibler divergence, not yet adopted in hydrological modelling
? They allow measurement of increase in information due to introducing new data, in principle, but have limitations: they are all based on probability distributions of discrete random variables or pdfs of continuous ones and take account of time structure (e.g. power spectra or correlation functions), and they seem to have been applied mainly to scalar variables. [A short review of these measures is available from John Norton]
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Barry - just checking to see that this Wiki works. I note that the discussion paper is still a bit of a draft. Should we work towards completing it soon or closer to the workshop?
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>>message<<
23:52 by '''[[~David Post]]'''
Barry - just checking to see that this Wiki works. I note that the discussion paper is still a bit of a draft. Should we work towards completing it soon or closer to the workshop?
>><<
to:
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>><<

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>><<

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January 18, 2008, at 12:42 AM by johnnortonanueduau -
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Barry - just checking to see that this Wiki works. I note that the discussion paper is still a bit of a draft. Should we work towards completing it soon or closer to the workshop?
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00:42 by '''[[~john.norton@anu.edu.au]]'''
Sec. 2.1, uncertainty depending on time step: The systematic error due to accumulating rainfall over a time step and perhaps also to averaging flow depends on whether the aim is to identify the instantaneous unit hydrograph or to predict flow from accumulated rainfall over a time step. easy to analyze how this error varies with time step if a suitable linear-model form, e.g. 2-exponential, is assumed for the IUH, but much harder for a non-linear loss module.

Secs. 4 and 5.1: can any use be made of established information measures such as entropy, mutual information and Kullback-Leibler divergence, not yet adopted in hydrological modelling
? They allow measurement of increase in information due to introducing new data, in principle, but have limitations: they are all based on probability distributions of discrete random variables or pdfs of continuous ones and take account of time structure (e.g. power spectra or correlation functions), and they seem to have been applied mainly to scalar variables. [A short review of these measures is available from John Norton]
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>>message<<
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Barry - just checking to see that this Wiki works. I note that the discussion paper is still a bit of a draft. Should we work towards completing it soon or closer to the workshop?
>><<
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>>message<<
23:52 by '''[[~David Post]]'''
Barry - just checking to see that this Wiki works. I note that the discussion paper is still a bit of a draft. Should we work towards completing it soon or closer to the workshop?
>><<
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test
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(:commentbox:)
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(:commentbox:)

Description:
The inclusion of additional information in a model should improve it's performance and reduce associated uncertainties. The additional information may take the form of higher temporal and/or spatial resolution of data already used, or additional (potentially soft) data. However, additional data is not necessarily equivalent with additional information, or with information that can be used by a particular model. Consideration of the information-to-noise ratio is needed in order to evaluate whether the information will indeed improve the model's ability to simulate the system. Evaluating the information-to-noise ratio and the information content of data in general are difficult, but one possible approach is to compare the performance and uncertainty of a model with and without the additional information. This session/workshop will focus on the use of additional information in improving the performance of and reducing the uncertainty in hydrological models. This includes consideration of the uncertainty in datasets as well as techniques to evaluate the effectiveness of the additional information in improving models.
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'''Position paper under discussion''': [[Attach:positionPaper.pdf| Workshop1Paper.pdf]]
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'''Position paper under discussion''': [[Attach:W2positionPaper.pdf| Workshop2Paper.pdf]]
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[++'''Position Paper'''++]
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(:title Discussion space - W2: Evaluating the impact of data and associated uncertainty on hydrological model predictions :)

'''Position paper under discussion''': [[Attach:positionPaper.pdf| Workshop1Paper.pdf]]

[++'''Abstracts'''++]

'''Example of abstract''': [[Attach:abstracExample.pdf| AbstractExample.pdf]]

[++'''Discussion'''++]

Comments from participants.


(:commentbox:)